Diff anon

I was looking forward to this exchange, but I'm beyond tired of exchanges and events that treat women and nb people as interchangeable. It's not fair to either group. NB people aren't basically women just for not being men, and women are their own gender, not some nebulous group of "non-men".

Our intention is not to imply that the groups are interchangeable. The rules for gender pre-date the current mod-team and seem to have worked well for participants for a few rounds now, and that includes the only hard and fast 'not' rule being no male-identified characters. We prefer not to play the gender definition police beyond that.

In addition, gender in fiction can get complicated, even more so than in real life. Taking a broad stance on allowing any ships that don't involve men avoids us as mods having to decide who counts as a woman (what about robots who look female, or characters from a society without gender, or shapeshifters who spend the entire canon looking like a human woman?)

We're not aware of a big AO3 category-style shipping exchange for genderqueer or non-binary characters, and in the absence of such an exchange we prefer to allow people to 'opt-in' for pairings they consider appropriate and might otherwise struggle to find an inclusive space for. If participants who identify as genderqueer or non-binary feel the current rules are inappropriate or offensive to their identity, or such an exchange develops, we're always happy to hear feedback so we can consider making changes for the next round.

Different anon here, staying anon this time because getting my own gender and personal experience involved in namespace is emotionally exhausting:

I'm nonbinary and I've always appreciated your rules and felt welcomed by them. My view on it is not that nonbinary people are "the same as women" but that I would want nonbinary characters to be included as "wildcards" in all types of exchanges. I would want them in f/f, m/m, and f/m exchanges. I feel that the alternative to this is that we'd often be left out entirely or only suitable for gender-neutral exchanges, which is to me an unhappy outcome. It isn't like there are a ton of canonically nonbinary characters, and no one's forcing anyone to request or offer characters they don't want to. I think I supported the previous mod privately for these inclusive rules.

The further reason for this inclusion is that there are a great many ships involving nonbinary characters that are to some degree "femslash" (such as most Steven Universe gem ships) and it would be petty and divisive to exclude them. It would also come as a slap in the face to lesbian-identified nonbinary people like myself. There are some nb-exclusionists who basically think nonbinary people shouldn't have access to any gendered spaces at all, but I don't apologize for using the women's bathrooms or locker rooms when I'm "socially female." If I have to deal with misgendering in life, if I have to deal with mandatory binary gender in a variety of social and legal ways, if I have to deal with misogyny and with homophobia for my relationship with my girlfriend, it is, honestly, petty and cruel to say gendered spaces aren't for me when they would be helpful to me and when I have nothing else.

Lesbians do date nonbinary people. Gay men date nonbinary people, though probably not the same ones--though you never know! Straight people date nonbinary people. In relationships, nonbinary often *is* like a "wildcard." I've found models that assume anyone who dates a nonbinary person is by definition bi to be inaccurate to my experience and the experiences of my friends.

The reason for including all nonbinary characters in good faith instead of just the "female enough" ones, is because it isn't pleasant to have people (who are often not nb themselves) impose artificial categories on nb people as a group, and decide which ones are "really male" or "really female." Hell if I know what such a jury would decide about me if I were a fictional character. I'm bigender, so I don't pass the "not a boy," test, yet I'm AFAB and partially female-identified, so "basically a girl," right? It's unpleasant. I understand that clear, rigid rules are helpful in exchanges, but in queer spaces we're historically allowed blurry gray areas for this exact reason. These lines are drawn through the bodies of the people in our community. It isn't fair or right to ask people to choose half of themselves.

To feralphoenix: not to nitpick, but you listed trans women as "genderqueer characters who are allowed," and that's incorrect. Trans women are not by definition genderqueer or nonbinary, though a trans woman may also identify as genderqueer or nonbinary. Trans women are women, which is a binary gender. Their inclusion is a completely different matter from nonbinary inclusion, though it does set a precedent that a character is not automatically excluded for being AMAB.

I also wish you wouldn't say things like "maybe this should be a girls' only exchange after all" just because you feel you aren't getting exactly what you want. I've been comfortable here for years and that would make me very unhappy.

Mods, I am familiar with all of these characters: Frisk and Chara and the Houseki no Kuni characters. Frisk and Chara canonically have they/them pronouns. There is no textual or creator statement about their genders, but they are consistently referred to with they/them throughout the game, and the game has other they/them-only characters. With Houseki no Kuni, I've only seen the anime so if there's more exploration about their genders in the manga I don't know, but from what I've seen, it was similarly sort of a non-issue, but they appeared to be sexless as well as genderless. The official English subs used they/them, while the Japanese technically did use he/him, it was impossible to avoid some gendering in the register/politeness level they spoke, as well as titles like "big brother" that don't have a gender-neutral equivalent, as much as it's usually easier to vague a gender in Japanese than English. The gendering in that was grammatical, much like the he/him in The Left Hand of Darkness or Earth: Final Conflict, or the she/her in Imperial Radch or arguably Steven Universe. Either they/them or he/him would be canonically correct, but I don't think that in cases like that, where genderless aliens pick a pronoun more or less at random, that it matters much.

It's my opinion that they should be included, not because they're "basically female" but because mods trying to assign nonbinary characters binary genders would be an ugly thing, and because there are so many nonbinary characters who obviously do belong. To other nonbinary people saying they don't like seeing certain characters here, that is your interpretation, but honestly, it isn't your place either to say what "category" nonbinary characters should fall into. As I said, I cringe to think what people would think of me if I were fictional.

I think it would be fair if OP put "Pronouns not used in canon for the characters" as a DNW. To be honest, this can be true of characters who are canonically she/her as well! I have seen people using non-canonical pronouns for Steven Universe and Imperial Radch she/her characters. I don't think it's fair to ask mods to keep track of every character ever's pronouns, but it seems a very fair DNW. If one has a strong opinion on they/them vs. he/him for HnK characters, I don't know what to say, because they're both canonical in different official versions.

Beyond that, you make your signup and you take your chances. If you get a match you hate, defaulting is always an option. If you get a gift you hate, leave a gracious comment and move on. Act in good faith and hope. What else can you do?

One last thing to the mods: you're doing a great job, and if you ever feel between a rock and a hard place because if you say "all nonbinary people are included" someone will accuse you of misgendering, feel free to direct people to this comment. To anyone who feels that inclusion is misgendering: firstly, do not assume that this is the ONLY place nonbinary characters are or should be included, or that that inclusion restrictively defines them. Secondly, picture what a damn mess it would be to have to make modcalls on when nonbinary dynamics are "femslashy enough" considering some are obvious femslash but no one can say exactly where the line blurs. Reminder that the author of Stone Butch Blues, one of the absolute classics of lesbian literature, is a he/him lesbian and pronouns aren't everything, and that nonbinary people have always been part of lesbian and bisexual wlw spaces, not as tokens or as binary women but as members of the community. Gender is so, so complicated, and if you see a character you feel doesn't belong here, don't offer or request them. I hope people will approach this with open minds and empathy and live and let live when they see an experience they don't immediately understand. A hard line on this would inevitably exclude characters who belong, and leave nonbinary wlw-aligned people like myself feeling alienated and hurt. I spent so many years trying to understand my gender, having someone who met me five minutes ago trying to sum it up for me and throw it back in my face is so hurtful. So many people think they're experts on my gender when I barely am, and try to tell me where I do or don't belong. I like that this community has never been one of those places, thank.

I really appreciate your comment! I'm glad that Femslashex has made you feel included, and your thoughts on the current ruleset are helpful for us mods going forward.

Just wanted to second the appreciation for your comment. A lot of your comment reflects my own RL experience of queer female spaces, and it's helpful to know the current rules have been similarly welcoming to some participants. Thank you very much for taking the time!